book collection "Kyle's Bed & Breakfast: Hot Off the Griddle". (This is the first Kyle's B&B book
to feature FULL COLOR episodes!). By the way, if you prefer Kyle's B&B in black & white,
there is also a special black & white edition available of the third book, too!
Both are easily available to order on Amazon. Just click on either of the banner links below to get there!
Additionally, if you want to see the strip from the very beginning, you can order the first two book collections,
"Kyle's Bed & Breakfast" and "Kyle's Bed & Breakfast: A Second Bowl of Serial".
Both are also easily available from Amazon by clicking on the banner links below:
One more thing: if you're not already a fan of Kyle's B&B on Facebook, well.... you really ought to
be! It's a great way to keep up with the B&B guys between episodes, and get all sorts of fun pics
and interesting tidbits that don't make it here to the B&B website. Just click on the banner link
below, and click on "Like" when you get there. Don't be left out in the cold!
Also, to follow Kyle's B&B on TWITTER, just click here: Follow @KyleComics
Also, if you're a comic book fan, don't miss the post below this one, detailing my trip to this year's New York City Comicon, where I had the great honor to meet & talk with the legendary Nick Cardy!
Oh, and Happy Earth Day, too!
55 comments:
Whatever happened to a sterile environment???
Remind me to Purell my hands the next time I am in Huntington Hospital!
LOL! Greg wants to stir up more trouble! LOVE it !
Obviously, there's an anomaly causing the characters from Kyle's world to have been shifted to the Grey's Anatomy universe...
What fun...and what a cool lady doc!
Also, I'm sure the supply closet has plenty of hand sanitizer...
ahh Greg ... no one is worreid about hands getting hmm unsanitary. It's the rest of the supply room that's gonna get trashed, if they do it right at any case.
O.K. We all knew that Jeff was “a bad boy”, now would Matt be stupid enough to put is job at risk? Totally out of character for him or the sex must be so “incredible far above any one else, fucking hot hot hot and above the moon”, that maybe. But there is always a price to pay and it’s always to much. As for the shift into the “Grey's Anatomy universe” do we really need to step that low, or could we find rediscover the Kyle’s B&B spirit?
I'm kind of upset that Brad telling Matt he loved him in the last issue. For some reason this strip made the idea of Jeff and Matt... grow on me a little. I just dont like that fact that Jeff betrayed Brad,even if Brad and Matt were broken up, I still think it's wrong to do that to someone who's supposedly your best friend.- Tevans
Not sure how to respond to today's post...Sad, annoyed, irritated, worried. Hmmm. Ugh! Two more weeks until the next strip. Hopefully these two will have told Brad by then.
In my early post I meant to say that I'm upset that Brad telling Matt he loved him wasnt addressed and Matt dosent seem to care (I really need to start proofreading)-Tevans
wow. totally didn't see that coming. well. i don't like it. but i have to admit that it was a good strip. and i saw that just us boys underwear jeff was wearing. he is hot. but still i never realized how much i had the hots for brad until the last two strips. i truly am a member of the i heart brad fan club which i didn't realize. maybe i'm projecting that i wouldn't hurt brad like that? LOL. but i don't get it? this means matthias NEVER REALLY LOVED brad! we know jeff was never brad's friend. so is this love what we are seeing between matthias and jeff? is this just sex? one thing is explained. matthias didn't have too much to drink this time. so last time he knew what he was doing. i don't like either one of these two. poor brad could be somewhere crying his eyes out?:(
-Choc
You guys are a bunch of hypocrites. How can you say that Matt never loved Brad When it was Brad who initiated the whole thing? I like this development between Jeff and Matt. Face it, all of you wanted Jeff and Brad to hook up and when it didn't happen that way, you were all disappointed...(1) If your boyfriend bragged about some other guy constantly, what would you do? (2) If your boyfriend CONTINUALLY disrepected you IN FRONT of everybody over this one guy, what would you do? (3) If your boyfriend compared your pubic hairs to that of some other guy's IN THE MIDDLE OF SEX, what would you do?..Matt never loved Brad? PLEASE! It was Brad who never loved Matt and Matt loved himself enough to simply walk away. He dumped a blond-haired, blue-eyed "dreamboat." How dare a man of color think that he was as good as his white counterpart! THEN you all had the NERVE to vote that Jeff is your "dream date" over Lance eventhough, they both had crazy sex. Why the diparity in treament? Jeff and Brad are treated ALOT better than Matt and Lance. Why? I'm sorry but I like this new development between Matt and Jeff!
Then there was the concern about Matt's job. Funny, there was no such concern when Brad ADMITTED that he thought about what it would be like to be in a relationship with Jeff to....Matt his lover! I hope that you guys out there don't conduct yourselves like that in your actual relationships! You are all in for a serious heartbreak..
To my gay, black brothers: Don't let noone treat you as if you are 2nd rate. You! Are! BEAUTIFUL!
Feel me?
BM
What would I do if I was being disrepected that way?
I think, at some point, I would have said something to him about it, if he was to dumb to realize he was doing it.
Matthia never said anything to Brad until just before he dumped him. He said something to Kyle though but that didn't go anywhere.
I felt bad for Brad. Come to think of this -- I used to dislike Brad because he's full of himself.
I used to like Jeff. Now I do not like Jeff. Greg, please put Jeff in an auto accident -- maim or kill him already!
;-)
Thank God for Kyle AND Breyer! I'll fry Greg if he tries to break 'em up!
R-
BM.....
PREACH IT!!!! (claps)
Great post!!!!
Halorous:
BUT why should you have to teach a grown man respect when it comes to your relationship? are you his babysitter?
Brad should have realized that all of the "slobbering" over Jeff in front of EVERYONE that Matt would get fed up!
And now people don't like Jeff. Why? you snooze, you lose! Jeff had no problem with Matt's pubic hairs and now Brad "loves" Matt.
Just because you are buff, blond and blue-eyes does not give you the right to totally act crazy to a lover. Naivete is for the newborns and not for grown men!
Question: Are you all livid because Matt was "irresponsible" or because Jeff and Brad did not hook-up to form the "All-American" couple?
BM
Brad doesn't love Matt for Christ's sake! He just wants something he can't have. He is so used to being the cute one that everyone drools for that he was shocked that Matt left him AND DIDn"T COME CRAWLING BACK. That's when Matt became valuable to him.
I thought Matt cared more about Brad but since he is able to move on this quickly, it just shows that his feelings for Brad were not that deep yet and that he was giving the relationship a chance.
I am not sure why the HIV status is such a non-issue here since it is a HUGE issue in the real world. It would have been discussed , no?? Maybe since they know each other it was a topic discussed per-hookup?
No concern regarding Matt's or Jeff's jobs. They are not breaking any laws and they are allowed to take a break. They are available if needed, they can easily be paged.
Hmmm...work-place romance at it's best.
;)
~Z.
I just think that Jeff has natural passion for Matt while Brad's is something that has to be forced. IF Jeff had made a move on Brad, I garuntee you that brad would have dropped Matt in a New York Minute!
He just got beat to the punch and his ego can't take it!
BM
We are all speculating; especially me. Let's wait until Greg shows us Brad again.
BUt believe me, Brad doesn't love Matt...Maybe next time, he will show some respect for his lover!
BM
BM, this is tough for me, being a Brad fan. Which it seems to me, at least from the recent posts, that the number of Brad fans might be a few? Matthias is "sort of new" and Jeff usually "blows into town and blows out of town." Since Jeff is a nurse and Matthias is a paramedic it might be a match made in heaven and they can move out of the B&B and get their own love nest? I would like to know Kyle's, and especially Richard's thoughts about the new couple - since Richard knew that Brad and Matthias had sex (was it on the couch) and mentioned it to Brad the very next morning? Because Richard can let anyone have it; a verbal slap - remember how he spoke to the butch camp instructor and also how he spoke to the guy with the eyebrows? Richard might say something along the lines of your sentiment to Brad? Just a fantasy. LOL.
-Choc
Choc:
But that's my point: why should anyone have to say anything to Brad? He made his bed and now he has to lie in it! He thought that because he was this blond haired, blue eyed man that everyone would fall over him NO MATTER WHAT! He had to learn the hard way that black men have LONG had a history of being THE strongest men (mentally) and making the tough decisions! Richard is just a gosspi hound and he doesn't care about anything. He is your typical twink. Think Lance Bass and we'll leave it at that. What I don't get is this from you: how can you be a fan of someone who treats his lover that way? It's like your excusing his behavior because he is your "dream guy." BUT when he was treating his black lover like some kind of dish rag, it was alright to all of the people here. I don't understand why majority of people within the gay community can't admit that they are predjudiced in his or her thinking and actions.
How much longer do you think that an upright, proud, handsome black man like Matt would sit around and wait for an indecisive muscle-bound hunk like Brad? If I were Matt, I would've hooked up with Jeff too! brad adimtted to Matt that he wondered what it would've been like to be with Jeff! HHHEEEELLLLOOO! Anybody home? Now you want them to leave the strip. Why? Is it because the creator of this strip went against a lot of people's beliefs and chose to show that Matt is as hot or even hotter than Brad? How dare he show a proud, upstanding gay black man who is not the stereotypical black drag queen or the Robert Mapplethorpe picture where only his penis is showing and not his face! Not all of us are desperate for white men only. We are a people too and as such we refuse to sit in the back of the bus or better yet, sit around until some white guy decides IF he wants to get back to us!
You feel me?
BM
I still don't see the race issue here.
It's Brad that's still immature (relation-wise), he would have behaved the same with any other man, black or not black.
- L -
BM,
Dude. I don't feel you at all. Check my nick - it's Choc! I dont' see this as a black or white issue. I see this as a boyfriend issue. And you and I both would have handled the situation very differently. I mean you bring up blond hair and blue eyes as if we don't know that already. You haven't brought up black hair and brown eyes (there is nothing wrong with that - check my nickname). It's a Brad and Matthias issue. No one never said Matthias wasn't a strong black man. I didn't say Brad was right by dissing his then boyfriend by bringing up someone else, anyone else, is just wrong. This might be Brad's first relationship and he is very in the closet. You have your viewpoint and I respect that. But I kindly and professional disagree because I see it in a different way. This is the last that I'll speak of the matter.
-Choc
Choc(Since you broought that up):
The way that Matt was being treated is the way that I see a lot of black men that are gau being treated by their white lovers. You are trying to state that color had nothing to do with it? Well, if that's the case then why are so many people here jumping down MATT'S case when BRAD compared his RED-HAIRED pubes to his black lovers? Why are so many people voting Jeff their "dream date" eventhough, he is a dog like Lance? It can't be becaue Brad is a better character than Matt or that Jeff is a better on that Lance.
Yes, I bring up blond haired and blue eyes a lot because within this so-called great gay mecca, you are still black and are thus rendered inert and not the standard of beauty! You know this! Stop pretending already.
Whenever someone just walks all over you and you allow it, you are not a strong man. Whenever you are black and in order to "fit" in, you take abuse, your manhood and blackhood is something that is stripped away and you subject yourself to that, you are not a strong black man! Matt wasn't a strong black man UNTIL he found the strength to walk away. He didn't do like a lot of gay black men and hide, he simply left. If this is the "last that you will speak on it" then how about this: Until blacks and other minorities are considered the same, this will always be an issue within the gay community. You know the one that is SUPPOSED to represent ALL colors!
Feel me now?
BM
BM and Choc:
Good to see you guys putting in your input...
BM:
Sorry I never got around to email you but your opinion, while I disagree with some of, is worthwhile. Let me ask you this one question. Should people then date outside their race period? There are many in the Gay Black community that will snub you if you've ever been with anyone beside a black man. Doesn't matter if the bruh is Latino. If he ain't black, you're a sellout.
This discussion really make me ponder how far any of us have come along, black or white. Your opinions can be heard out of the mouths of other ethnic groups. The community should be unified, yes. But our country as a whole, gay, straight and everything in between still is divided. When it boils down to it, do we even try to intermingle and coexist if everything will always be a race issue?
I'm not chastising you, just expressing my frustration. Yes we, and I mean black gay men in this case, experience racism from within the gay community. But we also face discrimination from the mainstream (read: straight) Black community. That's why some issues need to be looked individually sometimes. I believe any man should stand up for himself if he's being disrespected.
Also you seem to be so angry with the fact Matt was with "blond and blue-eyed" Brad, but really seem to be advocating for him being with "Red-headed and green eye Jeff." I see that you are trying to enlighten folks, but I'm a little confused about where you stand on the racial issue when it comes to Matt & Jeff vs. Matt & Brad. Does not Jeff have the same potential to disrespect Matt the way Brad did, since he's white? This is not meant to offend anyone, or my belief, I'm just attempting to sift through your reasoning here.
Choc:
You and I share the same sentiments, I think you worded it better than I did.
Choc & BM:
In ether case or point of gentlemen, what do you both suggest that (we SGL Black men)do to change people's (those haters in the community) attitudes?
I have friends from all walks Black, White, Latino, etc, and none of them have ever been blatantly ignorant. My one white friend kicked the shit out of another white guy, seriously beat him down, cause he heard the asshole trash talking about me, using the "WORD" when I wasn't within earshot.
So, while racism is s a problem within the LGBT community, it's not necessarily a problem with everyone who is White or non Black.
Still, what do we do to fix the Gay racism problem without ruining the progress we have made?
Ian
Ian,
Thanks. But this may sound sappy, but I have one word - Love.
When you get down to it I care to think that love is a running theme in Kyle's B&B and the gay community can apply that - or hang with the ones that do.
-Choc
Ian: Yes, people should date outside of his or her own race IF they are dating the PERSON as opposed to the color. You may not see my points because they are not of a "can't we all come together" mode. BUT just because we can date outside of our race does not mean that there are not any men of color that that are not equal to his white counterpart! I know about what you speak of within the black community: I just stopped dating a black gay man because to him I was not "pure" because I had dated white men before him. What did I do? DUMPED HIM promptly! Self respect comes from ALL aspects! If the black gay community REALLY wants leadership then it must come to grips that (1) BEING VISIBLE! (2) Accepting every black gay or lesbian! (3) IF the black gay community looks upon anyone as a sell-out then that's on them because I am going to be happy no matter what. Question: Do you think that white gays do the same thing?
You didn't read my posts closely enough. I brought up Brad's blond hair because in the so-called gay mecca, THAT is the standard of beauty while everything that is not that is deemed "second best." I think that you know that! Let's not pretend! Brad being blond is MORE of an excuse for him to misbehave because society puts it out there that blonds are stupid and thus when they do stupid things, they are just clueless and not mean-spirited. Every lover has the potential to disrespect someone. BUT not many would OPENLY comment on someone else's PUBIC hairs in the middle of sex! don't you agree? I know that you are not denying the fact that Jeff and Brad are looked at ALOT differently than Matt and Lance! Tell me you are joking! If it isn't their respective colors then why is it that you think?
Jeff/Lance are dogs and yet Jeff is regarded MUCH better...Matt/Brad are the perennial pretty boys and Brad is regarded MUCH better sepite the sheer disrespect! Are you denying this.
What can we do to "change" the haters attitudes? I say this: NOTHING. Why? Because a person will always hate you deep inside no matter what. It is not my mission in life to teach GROWN people that you should love each other no matter what. There are enough books, seminars, etc that speak to this type of thing! We are all adults! The internet as well! I will not waste my time getting people to see that hate is not the way because even if you do that, they still may hate. Life is too short to educate people on what he or she should already know.
IF your white friend stood up for you then..-CLAPS- BUT the majority of white gay people do not. I have NEVER felt such hatred as from these individuals! Never. To the gay community, Matt Shepard is THE poster boy for gay bashing. BUT what about J.R.Warren? Gwen Araujo? What did the last two have in common? They were minorities and thus received about 2 sentences when they were murdered! Why?
What progress? There are some within the community that feel that THE WORD is not as bad as the "F" word! So when you speak of progress, in what text are you referring? I will bet you that majority of the people on this blog do not know who Joseph Beam, Essex Hemphill, Marlon Riggs are! BUT ask them who Rosie, Elton, and Lance Bass is and the memory is instant. My solution: black gay people storm some of these gay establishments and DEMAND visibility! Sorry, I am "loved" out. "Love" isn't going to stop people from beating you down OR denigrating you as a person due to your color!
The gay community do not even acknowledge Bayard Rustin OR the great Slyvester! Is that love?
Feel me?
BM
Shhh. Let's wait for the next strip. Anticipation! Let love rule. :)
-Choc
No. Let EQUALITY rule.
BM
WOW BM Tell us how you really feel!
I don't deny that racism exist both is the gay world and the world beyond. But this comic strip gave no indication thus far to be racist. We can read racism and hate into everything. How about the token Jew and a half in the strip? But the fact that there is only one fully jewish character, who is single, and who is not high on the hotness chart does not imply that the strip reflects anti semitism. It can, and I am sure it is, read that way by some who are looking for indication of anti semitism every which way they go, but I think they miss their mark here.
There are so many places where bigotry, homophobia, anti-Semitism and hate are so much more blatant and pronounced, it's a shame to waste your energy on chastising a comic strip that at least tried to be open minded, inclusive, and attempts to give an accurate representation of the many shapes forms and colors that make up the American gay tapestry.
If anything, this comic educates people about the possibility to live and love and be color blind.
If you need a good place to direct your anger, follow the race for the presidency.
It was good of you to not include your initials so that I don't know to whom I am responding to. That siad however, Let me dissect this: You imply that I state that the comic strip is racist. The OVERTONE is not but the UNDERTONE, which is the people responding differently to Matt and Brad is right on the money...Within the gay world, gay jewish men are looked at with much more respect as blacks. Anti-semitism? Are you kidding? I have seen jewish people that "don't LOOK jewish" whatever that means and they will be treated better. In the strip "Chelsea Boys" there is a jewish gay man BUT he is underused while the blond one is OVERUSED! Racism is not just about blatant, it is an unconscious thing as well! ANYTIME that there is something different within the gay community, it is not accepted with open arms. BUT gay expect everyone else to accept them with open arms! Isn't that hypocritical? ANYTIME anyone is a "token" that is racist. Don't you agree?
But we are not talking about "so many places" we are talking about the gay community and why it exists when the gay community considers itself to be a minority entity! You like to believe that I am referring to the comic strip but I truly am referring to the gay community as a whole. This is an attempt to steer away from the conversations that make a lot of the men here uncomfortable. Black and white and otherwise. Noone here has answered the question as to why Brad/Jeff are regarded alot higher than Matt/Lance. Why is that? Can you answer that and not skirt around the question?
I could care less about the presidency. Really! All three candidates are nuts! You know that. IF everything was so "kosher" then why do we have so many organiztions that cater to racial ethnic groups( Asian, BWMT'Black and White Men Together,' Club Papi?) Could it be it is because the minority gays feel invisible and they are tired of this "love will conquer all crap?"
Actually, the strip is not what I am criticising, it's the way that 95% of the people who responded that were upset at Matt for sleeping with Jeff when Brad TOTALLY took him for granted AND disrespected him.
I totally stand by what I posted!
Feel me?
Bm
BM,
Check your email man. I sent you a response to a few things.
Darktomahawk
I've been reading the strip for ages... I think it was about the 20's when I started, and it's the first time I don't like how things are going... I didn't like Matt too much, but that was because he was a new character (relativelly speaking). I did like Jeff, though, he was on good, nice number for me; now he's on absolute bad negatives... All the problem about Matt and Jeff sleeping together is not what they did, but who they did it with. If Matt had gone and sleep with someone else, then people would have been more understanding, but to go and sleep with the very same guy he was (suppossedly) so jealous about, that tells me, as someone else already posted, that he never really loved Brad. And on Jeff, a "best friend" doesn't go and sleeps with your ex... As simple as that. Also, the fact that they're still doing it behind Brad's back tells you that they KNOW that what they're doing is WRONG. On the comments of the racist guy (BM), I just wont comment... And, no, I'm not white, I'm latino from Latin America. BTW, what happend to Edu's "band"? Last we knew about the issue, he was at a cast where they told him to take off his clothes and they guys told him he passed with "flying colors", but that was it... And it's been ages since that happened... O.o
Michel:
Playing Devil's Advocate on behalf of BM, he is not a racist, he's just trying to make a point with things. Unfortunately, in this type of forum, you can't really convey meaning without it sounding somewhat offensive or being misinterpreted. Writing out thoughts in a comments section is, at best, tedious.
While I don't necessarily agree with all of BM's approaches on everything, I do see what he is saying. As a man of color, I've seen and experienced racism on so many levels. Like every other social group, there are divisions even among the gay community. Who says we're on happy rainbow society, mm?
There are those who exalted and worshiped and others who are considered less desirable. I have friends on both sides of the color fence who will have nothing to do with another race except their own. There are white men who are more comfortable being white men, black men more comfortable with black men, Latino men with Latino men, etc etc.
While I see the recent strip being more about a matter of self-respect and not necessarily racism, there is a schism within the gay community. The optimist in me would like to say it's just a matter of attraction, but we all know that society projects and conditions us a particular feature or look is more desirable than others. Look at any magazine cover. For men, you have to be cut, well defined, yadda yadda, yadda.
This is not just a projection that black/white issue either. It crosses over into all ethnic walks of life. So universal...In my experience, as a multiracial black man, I see black gay/SGL magazines forcing the viewpoint that a brother has to be some acceptable stereotype, the "roughneck" or "thug" look.
As someone from Latino background, have you not experience some cultural stereotype expectation from someone outside your ethnicity? We all do it, most of time it probably is subconscious.
Overall society still tends to segregate itself, so pointing it out within the gay community shouldn't be any surprise. The issue is, is this current storyline really racism going on here?
I won't answer that, but I have my own belief. I'll let you formulate your own opinions. I've communicated with the author and I have an understanding of what his message is. Perhaps, even, it is his plan to expand our consciousness. Racism is such a touchy subject, even in the 21st century. Look at the whole Democratic Nomination process right now. Barack v. Hillary...
I won't get into that political nightmare here, but I will agree with BM that we tend to bury our heads in the sand about somethings when it comes to race.
That said, I like Jeff Olsen's character. I like Matt's character. I even like Brad. I hate Jeff/Matt coupling simply because their pairing seems like a betrayal to friendship. Not that Matt didn't have every right to ditch Brad, he did. He was disrespected. But on a human heart level, your ex gets together with your best friend, dude that's just wrong!
As far as the issue on which character is more socially elevated with beauty...ummm, they're comic strip characters. Does it really matter? LOL.
Now given my choice for a REAL in the flesh man, well, if he's hot, he's hot. Don't matter what color he is!
Until the next go round....
Ian
I will be disappointed if Brad ends up with either Jeff or Matt; race is irrelevant. They both betrayed him. And that does NOT excuse Brad's juvenile treatment of his then lover (Matt), who had every right to push Brad away and tell him to grow up and get his head together. But Matt would not have reacted to Jeff as he did if he really had any feelings for Brad. All three of them need to grow up if they want a real relationship.
Forgot to add that Matt evidently didn't take seriously his promise to talk with Brad "later" because he'd had a "late night" the night before. Not sure how much time has passed, but enough that both Jeff and Matt are at work. Enough that Matt could've had his talk with Brad. Let's see: Brad said to Matt "I Love You" (first time ever). Matt pushed him away, said he'd discuss "later," but no later has happened yet, Matt continues his fling with Jeff. No, no remorse there, no feelings for Brad. Brad should take a hint without even needing a discussion with Matt. How long till Greg shows us Brad in serious pain? How can Jeff seriously portray himself as "best friend" here? And no way can Matt have any depth of feelings for either one of them.
Ian;
As you know, racism comes in many ways and fashions; I do think his comments were racist; not only because he brought the whole subject up, but also because of his reference to Brad as "a blond-haired, blue-eyed 'dreamboat'"; if that's not a racist expression in that context, I don't know what that is. There are, I think, plenty of places to talk and discuss about racism, but to bring it here, where it had nothing to do with the storyline.
"As someone from Latino background, have you not experience some cultural stereotype expectation from someone outside your ethnicity? We all do it, most of time it probably is subconscious."
Not really... I live in Venezuela and we're one of the most (if not the most) racially mixed countries; you can find people from all different colors walking down the street, and people get along just cool with everyone regardless of their color; here, it's a thing of how you behave, how well or bad educated you are socially. Though lately, there's a big separation for political reasons.
On the Obama vs. Clinton, I like Hillary better, but only because I know her from the "First Lady" days... I don't know Barak; I do think, though, that the US wins regardless of which one of them wins, because they both would be a breaking of paradigms, one being the first woman to get to the White House, the other being the first black person to get to the White House; a win-win situation on that aspect. I study political sciences, and I know of the impact it will have, but I'm also aware of the heavy burden they will have, since they will have to be the BEST goverment in recent history, or they might trash out the opportunities of other women, blacks, and the rest of "unusuals" to get that high.
---
All I know is this... Were this a TV show, and Matt's and Jeff's days would be counted... With the fingers of a single hand...
Michel.
Michel
So you want to call someone a "racist?" Well, you are of latin descent. What do you call latins when they speak to each other ONLY in spanish and exclude everyone else? Racist? What do you call latin GAY men that ONLY date white men? Racist? What do you call these so call immigrants that want EVERYONE else to pay his or her way? Racist? You should not even go there because I think that there is enough stones in the background of your own race for you to even call someoelse racist!
You don't even know when someone is using you as a fetish or just to "hit it" with someone of your race. You want to believe that this gay society is something of a mecca for you, ARE YOU INSANE? When did you EVER see a hispanic person that wasn't stereotypical of a white person's account on a TV show? Magazine or even a simple ad? When have you EVER seen a show that even caters to the latin, gay experience? No, instead most latin guy that I have come across have tried to assimilate themselves into white gay culture totally ignoring his or her own.
You speak about Venuzueala, BUT within the latin culture, there is a hatred amongst alot of them simply because some are of a darker hue. You know this because it exists within the black culture. So please don't insult people's intelligence by putting it out there that your country doesn't have the strife that every country has. You need to read a book or get a clue in reality before calling someone a racist simply because he or she doesn't think or even look like you.
Just because you may prefer to be someone's plaything doesn't mean that everyone else has to think like you, be careful, some people might call that: "machismo" which is of course racist.
By the way, I stand by what I have said: If Brad REALLY wanted Matt then he would have done more to keep him. If the two had been in a "relationship" that was true then BOTH parties would have spoken more. Matt did the right thing and walked away. Brad stated that he "loved" Matt. Well, just because you love someone, that doesn't give you the volition to treat them badly and it also means that he or she doesn't have to state that they love you too. Jeff WAS a friend to Brad. It was Brad who was stupid enough to let Matt go. Do you all know how hard it is to find a good man, PERIOD? Matt has: Good looks, BUILT, educated, VERY stable job, is loyal when in a relationship and is romantic? I am sorry but where so I sign? Brad should NEVER of let that go! Now, he is wondering why Matt never told him "I love you back." After being treated like that, I would not have either!
Bm
"What do you call latins when they speak to each other ONLY in spanish and exclude everyone else?"
Bad educated; it's not nice to do so... It's corteous to speak on a language everyone present understands; of course, you don't mention the cases where people might only speak spanish fluently enough to express themselves or feel confortable speaking...
"What do you call latin GAY men that ONLY date white men?"
Nothing... Just a thing of people's wants... Prefferences, if you want. You might come all "I'm hollier than thou", but I bet there are people from an X race that are just not your thing. For someone people, asians are a huge turn on, for others, they don't do a thing.
"What do you call these so call immigrants that want EVERYONE else to pay his or her way?"
Opportunists.
You're mixing oranges and apples; I recommend you to run, not walk, RUN to a library or bookstore and get a dictionary so you can read what the word "racist" means. "Racism" will do too.
"You don't even know when someone is using you as a fetish or just to "hit it" with someone of your race."
Happens with any race.
"You want to believe that this gay society is something of a mecca for you"
Please, point out where did I say so.
"When did you EVER see a hispanic person that wasn't stereotypical of a white person's account on a TV show? Magazine or even a simple ad?"
Happens to any race; comes with the territory, and also depends on the network, the audience, the writters...
"When have you EVER seen a show that even caters to the latin, gay experience?"
Being gay is not an open thing for most latins, so, it's not a thing of racism, but a cultural thing towards same-sex couples; also, if that's gonna be portrayed on TV, wouldn't it be on a latin-oriented and targeted network? I bet you don't watch Telemundo or any other of those networks regularly to know, right?
"No, instead most latin guy that I have come across have tried to assimilate themselves into white gay culture totally ignoring his or her own."
That's a thing of personal choice. It also depends on how they were raised, if they were born in the US or not... Also, I've seem a LOT of "latin stuff" being adopted by other cultures. And, in the end, they don't really fully adopt one thing or the other, but a mix of them, which is, in my opinion, better. A culture only advances when it enriches itself with as many backgrounds as possible.
"You speak about Venuzueala, BUT within the latin culture, there is a hatred amongst alot of them simply because some are of a darker hue. You know this because it exists within the black culture. So please don't insult people's intelligence by putting it out there that your country doesn't have the strife that every country has. You need to read a book or get a clue in reality before calling someone a racist simply because he or she doesn't think or even look like you."
Depends of the country. I speak about Venezuela because I live here. You know what's the nicest petname someone can give to their lover in Venezuela? Negro or Negra. And that's not reserved to people of a particular race. Also, when someone is considered to be WAY COOL, they're also called negro or negra. So, as you see, and as I said, there's no racism in Venezuela. It's a thing of education here, as I mentionned.
"Just because you may prefer to be someone's plaything doesn't mean that everyone else has to think like you, be careful, some people might call that: "machismo" which is of course racist."
Nope. Racism and Machism are not the same thing. And when people reffer to machism theyr also speaking of something completelly unrelated to race; it's a thing of gender and behaviour towards another gender. Again, run to a dictionary.
"If the two had been in a "relationship" that was true then BOTH parties would have spoken more."
Please, mention the name of the one that only complainned once and then went and slept with what he thought was the cause of his complain? It wasn't Brad, was it?
"Matt did the right thing and walked away."
And went to have sex with Jeff, who he was jealous of and was Brad's friend... Good boy!
"...just because you love someone, that doesn't give you the volition to treat them badly and it also means that he or she doesn't have to state that they love you too."
And that's related to race because...? You look at it as if Brad did that because Matt is black, and that Matt went and slept with Jeff because he was black... At least that's what I gather from what you've said... I think that what Brad did was wrong, but that would have happened regadless of Matt's race.
"Jeff WAS a friend to Brad."
Yeah, right... Lurking in the back waiting for a change to sleep with Matt; what a great friend.
"It was Brad who was stupid enough to let Matt go."
He didn't. Matt left. He complainned, broke up, and left... It's hard to mantain a conversation, or even apologize or find a solution when the other part is not present. But Matt left. And went to sleep with Jeff. VERY mature of him.
"Do you all know how hard it is to find a good man, PERIOD?"
And does that mean that because of that you have the right to go and sleep with your ex-'s "best friend" right after a broke-up that you didn't even knew if it was final because you didn't talk about it? Or to sleep with your "best friend's" ex- that you don't know if they could salvage the relationship? A good friend would have had to make them talk and solve it, not sleep with one of them. And keep on doing it behind his back. Which tells you that they KNOW that what they're doing is WRONG.
"Matt has: Good looks, BUILT, educated, VERY stable job, is loyal when in a relationship and is romantic?"
Read above.
"Now, he is wondering why Matt never told him "I love you back." After being treated like that, I would not have either!"
Did Matt ever mention what Brad was doing? Nope. Communication is the key to a relationship. Brad is new to all that; Matt isn't. He should have known better, don't you think? Just a "I don't like your infatuation with Jeff" would have solved it all ages ago. He didn't say a thing. Brad did wrong. And Matt did wrong. But what Matt did went from wrong to out-right BAD when he slept with Jeff.
I do still think they stabbed Brad in the back, and I do still want them out of the strip.
Michel.
Michel,
Nice. You totally avoided any asertations and questions. This is what happens when you debate with someone who is educated and is well aware of your culture. You see, I was engaged to a latino for over 4 years so...Let's continue, shall we? Being in America, you know good and well that the majority of latins that speak spanish as his or her CURRENT language expects everyone else around them to cater to them. Let's not pretend! You avoided that one altogether! You play on someone's intellect when you do this. Let's try again: Is it racist when latinos/latinas ONLY speak spanish to each other excluding everyone else? It's a simple question.
Your 2nd paragraph states preferences. You can have a preference WITHOUT desecrating your own culture! When I see these individuals who are darker than some black people proclaiming that they don't "relate" to one another, I laugh. You know the ones that ofrget about Celia Cruz BUT know the words to every Madonna song! Preference is alot different than bigotry! Don't get it twisted. I have dated men of pratically ALL races and I prefer white and black men BUT if I find an asian or latino who can make me happy then that's whre I will be. RACIST would never allow that. Look at how a lot of latin gays proclaim that they "don't speak that language" which is the language of their own forefathers!
You call immigrants oppurtunists? But are we not all from those "oppurtunists?" don't be daft!
You state that being gay is not an open thing for latins? Funny, the same thing was said about black people and yet I at least see some black gay representation! Where is the latin gay representation outside of the occasional sex ad? Your gay experience has been reduced to a hyperbole! Oh well, "it can happen to any race."
You have such drivel with your post. It doesn't state practical points of reference, instead your argument is one of emotion and not of knowledge! I expected this of you because you have made any historical content within your post which leaves me to the conclusion that you are one of those guys that wants to "look to the rainbow" and listen to Clay Aiken in an attempt to ignore what you should already know. You have not a clue as to when you are being treated as a secondary person and what's more is that it doesn't "bother you."
NOw, I am assuming that Brad, Jeff and Matt are grown. It is not Matt's job to "babysit" Brad. You are looking at the physicality of it all instead of the obviousness of it all! Matt totally DISRESPECTED Matt when he tried to "go along with it." Brad what SLOBBERING all over Jeff IN FRONT of everyone. I would have did it too if I were Matt.
Everyone here sits on their little high horse about this BUT when placed in that situation, they would have done the same so please stop pretending! Why is Matt supposed to be "mature" but Jeff and Brad aren't. Remember. it takes TWO to tangle and Brad PUSHED Matt away!
You state "maturity" Well let's see...Is it mature to have your lover brag about how good SOME other guy that he used to have the hots for looks in his clothes? comparing YOUR pubs to this other guys IN THE MIDDLE of sex? Worry about other guys hitting on this same guy? FAWNING over this other guy? Stating that he wondered what it would be like to be in a "relationship" with this other guy? This is all done to Matt! Matt suffered in silence until he no longer associated pleasure with Brad and IT! WAS! BRAD'S! FAULT! Tell me, was that "maturity" on Brad's part?
Before you debate with me, PLEASE be knowledgeable because some who is not logical cannot debate with someone who is. It looks crazy and is an anomaly!
You may want them out of the strip but the people in hell want ice water but they ain't gettin' it so....GET OVER IT!
BM
Hello,
"You totally avoided any asertations and questions."
Hmmmm.... Ok, so, I guess that, for you, if people don't reply in the way you want, and tell you what you want to hear, they're avoinding "any asertations and questions"?
"This is what happens when you debate with someone who is educated and is well aware of your culture."
Cliché. Just as you don't have the same culture in your country everywhere, same happens all over the world. I really doubt you know your own "culture" through and through to be able to think you know someone else's. Things in Spain, Mexico, Venezuela, and Argentina are done sometimes close to each other, but usually quite differently. It would be as if I was to say that things in Australia are done exactly as in the US, just because of their linked past with England... That's an over-simplification of it, and someone that does that, not only can't talk about other cultures, but can't even talk about his/her own.
"You see, I was engaged to a latino for over 4 years so..."
And then so you think everyone in latin america is the exact same "copy and paste" of this guy? Who was the one that said in his previous post "When did you EVER see a hispanic person that wasn't stereotypical of a white person's account on a TV show?" Doesn't this mean that you're judging millions of peple by a steoreotype you have of what latino people are or might be because of only ONE person?
"Being in America, ..."
The United States, America in the name of two continents. AND, I repeat, I live in Venezuela, not the US.
"... you know good and well that the majority of latins that speak spanish as his or her CURRENT language expects everyone else around them to cater to them. Let's not pretend! You avoided that one altogether! You play on someone's intellect when you do this. Let's try again: Is it racist when latinos/latinas ONLY speak spanish to each other excluding everyone else? It's a simple question."
You have 2 big problems there. One is that I already answered that; it's bad education, or lack of knowledge of the language. And second, the US doesn't have an official language, so, unless everywhere else in the world, prople don't HAVE TO speak in a specific language. Here we have a TON of people from a lot of places, and they chit-chat in their own language, you see them everywhere. Do anyone else feel bad about it? Excluded? Rejected? Looked down? Nope. Why? Because they're not talking with or to me. Why would I care? BUT, since we DO HAVE an official language, then they HAVE TO use it, they HAVE TO learn it, otherwise, they would not be able to function in this country.
"Your 2nd paragraph states preferences. You can have a preference WITHOUT desecrating your own culture!"
What do you consider that to be? "Desecrating" a culture? O.o
Do you know what was the first thing that came to my mind when I read that? The Talibans. I got the image of that ages-old Buddha image they blow-up because it wasn't part of their islamic (extremist) culture.
"When I see these individuals who are darker than some black people proclaiming that they don't "relate" to one another, I laugh."
"Relate" as in? They could be using that phrase in a myriad of ways. I may say I "relate" to you because we're both gay, so, in that case, yes; but I don't relate to you because I don't live in the US, my main language is not english, I'm not black, I don't have your cultural background, your personal background, your heritage, the same job as you, and I'm not a racist; so, it depends on what specific context they were talking about.
"You know the ones that ofrget about Celia Cruz BUT know the words to every Madonna song!"
So? O.o
I really don't see the relation... Especially being the styles SO different. Again, a cliché. It's like saying that a black guy MUST KNOW how to play basketball, or that a latino MUST KNOW how to dance salsa... You're full of clichés...
"Preference is alot different than bigotry! Don't get it twisted."
Where did I say so?
"I have dated men of pratically ALL races and I prefer white and black men ..."
You mean checkered? LOL
Sorry :)
"... BUT if I find an asian or latino who can make me happy then that's whre I will be."
But you DO have a prefference, however, if you see someone that doesn't like black people for a couple, you would instantly rise the racism flag, right?
"RACIST would never allow that. Look at how a lot of latin gays proclaim that they "don't speak that language" which is the language of their own forefathers!"
It's a thing of personal choice. I have ancestors of many parts. Some came from Castilla, and I do speak csatillian (which is the propper name of the "spanish" language); some came from the Basque Country (Euskadi), others from Galicia, others were native americans, particularly (and quite recent) from the Warao tribe, and others came as slaves from Africa, I guess from Nigeria since most came from there; however, I don't speak Euskera, Galician, Warao, or any of the languages used in Nigeria, because they were "lost" generation after generation. To think that a latino MUST speak spanish just because he's latino is a cliché... If he wants to do so, he can learn it as anybody else, regardless of their ancestry.
"You call immigrants oppurtunists? But are we not all from those "oppurtunists?" don't be daft!"
I didn't call immigrants opportunists, read what you wrote, don't twist my words. You wrote "What do you call these so call immigrants that want EVERYONE else to pay his or her way?" Isn't that what an opportunist is? Regadless of whether they're immigrants or not? Again, don't twist my words.
"You state that being gay is not an open thing for latins? Funny, the same thing was said about black people and yet I at least see some black gay representation!"
I do too. And latins too. I never said the number was zero, did I?
"Where is the latin gay representation outside of the occasional sex ad?"
Marketing. Again, if YOU get to see that ad, is because they were broadcasted to the black audience or the general audience, if it was broadcasted for the latino community especifically, I doubt you would see it, since I really don't think you watch the latino oriented channels, or buy the latino oriented magazines, do you?
"Your gay experience has been reduced to a hyperbole!"
Hyperbole: extravagant exaggeration (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hyperbole)
Would you point out where I used an "extravagant exaggeration"? Hmmm.... That actually sounds closer to the use of clichés... Do you know anyone that has been using a lot of clichés on this board recently?
"You have such drivel with your post. It doesn't state practical points of reference, instead your argument is one of emotion and not of knowledge!"
Uh? I don't remember you citing anything anywhere, so, doesn't that make your comments out "of emotion and not of knowledge!"?
"I expected this of you because you have made any historical content within your post which leaves me to the conclusion that you are one of those guys that wants to "look to the rainbow" and listen to Clay Aiken in an attempt to ignore what you should already know."
A.- You don't know me, my life is pretty grey. B.- I have no idea who Clay Aiken is. C.- I don't ignore anything, I'm realist, factical, and pragmatic, but I also see the diferent axes of everything. D.- I don't think that I'm the holder of the absolut truth and that the world is as I think it is and everyone else is wrong, as you do.
"You have not a clue as to when you are being treated as a secondary person and what's more is that it doesn't 'bother you.'"
Don't understand that... Secondary person? Could it be that you think you have to be the center of the universe and if you're not then you feel down? That's the impression that phrase leaves me. Sometimes you're the center of things, but sometimes you're not. That's life.
"NOw, I am assuming that Brad, Jeff and Matt are grown. It is not Matt's job to "babysit" Brad. You are looking at the physicality of it all instead of the obviousness of it all!"
Did I ever mention any physical attributes? Let's do a recap. "Matt has: Good looks, BUILT, educated, VERY stable job, is loyal when in a relationship and is romantic?" isn't the "BUILT" a physical attribute? Why the all-caps in it? Now, if you mean the race, who raised the race banner on all this? Me?
"Matt totally DISRESPECTED Matt when he tried to "go along with it." Brad what SLOBBERING all over Jeff IN FRONT of everyone."
Assuming you mean that Brad disrespected Matt, I've never said he didn't. However, there are some things you willingly seem to forget. One is that in a relationship you have to talk things out with whoever you are with. Brad is new to relationships, Matt isn't. So, he should have said anything to Brad, prefferably when he did it for the first time, otherwise he would be "one of those guys that wants to 'look to the rainbow' and listen to Clay Aiken in an attempt to ignore" what's happening. What Brad did, Matt saw it, the rest saw it, we saw it, but he didn't, otherwise, he wouldn't have done it. And if you think he did so knowingly, then you really don't know Brad's character.
"I would have did it too if I were Matt."
Go out and sleep with your ex-'s "best friend" before trying to see if you could have talked and solved the issue? And keep on doing it behind everyone's back? Hidding?
"Everyone here sits on their little high horse about this BUT when placed in that situation, they would have done the same so please stop pretending!"
Not everyone else is you. THANK GOD!
"Why is Matt supposed to be "mature" but Jeff and Brad aren't."
His character, for one part. He was the mature of the couple. Brad is too naïve. And Jeff is... Well... :S
"Remember. it takes TWO to tangle and Brad PUSHED Matt away!"
It takes two to tango. A south american (argentinean) dance. That aside, when you push someone away, you do so knowingly. When you do so unkowingly, and the other person "leaves you" do it, then they are, really, just waiting for an excuse to walk out.
"You state "maturity" Well let's see...Is it mature to have your lover brag about how good SOME other guy that he used to have the hots for looks in his clothes? comparing YOUR pubs to this other guys IN THE MIDDLE of sex? Worry about other guys hitting on this same guy? FAWNING over this other guy? Stating that he wondered what it would be like to be in a "relationship" with this other guy? This is all done to Matt!"
A.- By Brad, not Matt. B.- Did I ever say Brad was mature? Point it out, please.
"Matt suffered in silence ..."
Because he wanted, otherwise, he would have said something.
"... until he no longer associated pleasure with Brad and IT! WAS! BRAD'S! FAULT! Tell me, was that "maturity" on Brad's part?
Read B of the previous reply.
"Before you debate with me, PLEASE be knowledgeable because some who is not logical cannot debate with someone who is."
Hmmm... Let's see... Everything you type looks pretty agressive; the use of the all-caps and the exclamations points; it's as if you were yelling all the time. Not really what you would expect of someone who thinks of himself as logical. Also, logic is the science that studies reason (that's the most common meaning of the word), and no-one can really say they are "logical", that would be saying you are the holder of reason, which you are not.
"It looks crazy and is an anomaly!"
Read above, plus:
Anomaly: deviation from the common rule; irregularity; something anomalous; something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anomaly)
It means that, to you, anyone else that thinks different is, in fact, wrong, odd, different, abnormal, not only in what they say, but also in their way of thinking, behaviour, and as a person. Hmmm.... That seems to be the founding ground of bigotry... So, does that mean you descended on the scale from racist to bigot?
"You may want them out of the strip but the people in hell want ice water but they ain't gettin' it so....GET OVER IT!"
Yup. I still want them out. However, I do know I'm not the one that choses that. Which makes me different than you, since, by that phrase, you seem to think you do control who appears on the strip and who not. You're wrong. You do not. It's Greg.
To close, just count how many people think close to the way I do here and on the group, and how many people think close as you do. Seems as those that support your view can be counted with the fingers of a single hand, and you still have fingers to spare. Who do you think is wrong?
In the words of a racist-turned-bigot I recently met here on the net:
"GET OVER IT!"
Michel.
Michel:
Stupid is as stupid does. Let's try this again: You can't reply at all because you know what the answer will be in that 1st paragraph. You don't like to admit it when your wrong!
2nd: So what you are stating is that because Mexican people have ties to England that they feel a more natural kinship with them. Is that it? Be specific and stick to the point! You are putting out a hypothesis and really nothing more.
3rd: He struggled with being latin SO much that he refused to have anything to do with HIS OWN CULTURE! He would often think that he "looked like a white boy" when he actually looked EXACTLY like he was Asian. Features and all. He had not a clue as to what it meant to be latin and gay! NOT! A! CLUE! What's worse is that he didn't want to either. My point was that IF there were latin gay points of reference, he might have been more comfortable with himself instead of hiding behind the facade of looking "like a white boy." Even the streaks in the hair didn't help.
4th: You live in Venuzuela. Then you should REALLY know better!
5th: You can't cite "bad education" or "lack of knowledge." If I were in your country, I would be expected to learn the lay of the land, no excuses! You answered my question through your avoidance of said question.
6th: It was the first thing that came to my mind too whenever I see them doing that!
7th: I have a PREFERENCE but that doesn't mean that I will ONLY date that type! Man are you being dense!
actually, I can read in both english and spanish if I want to. And yes I have watched some latino shows and movies as well so...I am glad that you looked up hyperbole because that is the way that latins are treated in this country. "The center of attention?" No. How about "as good as other people" and not being afraid to show it? "That's life?" You ought to be ashamed of that statement. While the latinos are struggling to find his or her own niche within this gay community, you state that it's "life." Remember: It's nice to laugh but don't be the joke!
You think for one second that Brad didn't know what he was doing? How do you know? You have only the strip to read on that statement. He HAD to of realized that his actions would have a consequence. I would have left too if someone did that to me! Wouldn't you? I love myself WWWaaaayyyy too much for that! Hey, you looked up anomaly too! Now tell me what about this whole thing is "regular?" Nothing. Tell me about how normal it is to treat someone that you are involved with like this. It isn't thus, giving credence to the term: anomaly!
In closing, you seem to think that I care if the people here agree or disagree with me here. I don't. I don't even care if Greg agrees. You try to grasp at straws by bringing Greg into this when he is not involved in our conversation because unlike you, I buck the status quo and as such I will never say stupid things like "love rules." My way is much more militant and a such my heart is a drummer and I am much more revolutionary in my thinking and actions. Without people like me, there would be no such thing as "civil rights," "gay liberation movements" and such. You need people like me to take the lead because people like you are afraid of his own shadow.
Now, GET! OVER! IT!
BM
"Stupid is as stupid does. Let's try this again: You can't reply at all because you know what the answer will be in that 1st paragraph. You don't like to admit it when your wrong!"
1.- Stupid: slow of mind; obtuse; given to unintelligent decisions or acts; acting in an unintelligent or careless manner; lacking intelligence or reason; brutish; dulled in feeling or sensation; torpid; marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting; senseless; lacking interest or point; vexatious; exasperating.
2.- When people start insulting personally, you won the fight, so, thanks for conceeding.
3.- Bewsflash: You're not the holder of truth. People that think different than you are not necessarily wrong.
4.- By calling me "stupid" just for thinking different, you're calling stupid to everyone on this board and on the group that just happens to think different.
"So what you are stating is that because Mexican people have ties to England that they feel a more natural kinship with them. Is that it? Be specific and stick to the point! You are putting out a hypothesis and really nothing more."
Mexicans having ties with England? Not only it is historically wrong, but I didn't say so. You mixed two completelly different parragraph, go to your optometrist.
"He struggled with being latin SO much that he refused to have anything to do with HIS OWN CULTURE! He would often think that he "looked like a white boy" when he actually looked EXACTLY like he was Asian. Features and all. He had not a clue as to what it meant to be latin and gay! NOT! A! CLUE! What's worse is that he didn't want to either. My point was that IF there were latin gay points of reference, he might have been more comfortable with himself instead of hiding behind the facade of looking "like a white boy." Even the streaks in the hair didn't help."
Uh? Again, something that is reduced to the experience of a single person. If he had problems, if he didn't accept himself, that was something that didn't necessarily had anything to do with race. Many people feel that way about themselves, regardless of the race. Obviously, he had some serious mental issues. And complete lack of self-steem. It is actually quite easy to see he had some problems, he was with you after all...
"You live in Venuzuela. Then you should REALLY know better!"
I do, and that's why I know better than you, who do not live here.
"You can't cite "bad education" or "lack of knowledge." If I were in your country, I would be expected to learn the lay of the land, no excuses! You answered my question through your avoidance of said question."
You would be expected to learn the language because it is mandatory here to do so; all documentation is in spanish, and all public offices attend people in spanish (except for the offices that have things to do with the different indian tribes in their respective zones), so, yeah, you would have to earn the language. This doesn't apply to the US, you don't have an official language and official documentation is issued in 5 different languages (at least it was so last time I checked).
"It was the first thing that came to my mind too whenever I see them doing that!"
Uh? Doing what?
"I have a PREFERENCE but that doesn't mean that I will ONLY date that type! Man are you being dense!"
That's you. I't s a thing of personal choice and prefference. Are are you telling me it should be mandatory to people to date people of all races regardless of whether they want to or not or regadless of whether they are attracted or not to people of a given race?
"actually, I can read in both english and spanish if I want to. And yes I have watched some latino shows and movies as well so..."
Don't think so... Otherwise, you would know by now more about the latino culture, which you obviously don't understand.
"I am glad that you looked up hyperbole because that is the way that latins are treated in this country."
A.- How can people be trated as an "extravagant exaggeration"? That applies to things, words, clichés; not to people.
B.- You said "Your gay experience has been reduced to a hyperbole!" So, it was you who compared me and my experience with a hyperbole... What makes you different from others, then, according to your own perspective?
"'The center of attention?' No. How about 'as good as other people' and not being afraid to show it?"
If you feel down, have self-steem problems, and think that people look to you down, that's you.
"'That's life?' You ought to be ashamed of that statement. While the latinos are struggling to find his or her own niche within this gay community, you state that it's 'life.' Remember: It's nice to laugh but don't be the joke!"
So, according to you, people must be flamboyant in their cultural behaviour, segregationist, purist-talibanic, and such, or they're rejecting their culture? You say you read spanish; how many black people can read spanish? Oh! You're different... O.O Doesn that make you any less black?
"You think for one second that Brad didn't know what he was doing? How do you know?"
How do you?
"You have only the strip to read on that statement."
So do you. Unless you are Greg Fox in disguise, which I seriously doubt, you have the excat same information as everyone else.
"He HAD to of realized that his actions would have a consequence."
You assume he knew what he was doing, read my 2 previous replies.
"I would have left too if someone did that to me! Wouldn't you?"
If they did it knowingly, yeah; but regardless of whether they are doing it knowingly or not, I would have said something the first time it happened. AND, I wouldn't have gone straight to have sex with that person's "best friend"; especially if I was jealous, in any way, of that person. Unless, of course, if I was such a low character so as to do it for revenge. Thanks to bring up this new axis we hadn't seen.
"I love myself WWWaaaayyyy too much for that!"
It is evident you do; with all that thinking you're the center of the universe, the holder of the absolut truth, and hollier than everyone else...
"Hey, you looked up anomaly too! Now tell me what about this whole thing is 'regular?' Nothing. Tell me about how normal it is to treat someone that you are involved with like this. It isn't thus, giving credence to the term: anomaly!"
You're mixing parragraphes again. You called ME and anomaly; not the situation... And to think I quote you and all, and you don't even read what I'm replying to... :S
"In closing, you seem to think that I care if the people here agree or disagree with me here. I don't. I don't even care if Greg agrees."
I don't. I don't really care what other people think, actually. BUT, it's just a metter on looking at the numbers.
"You try to grasp at straws by bringing Greg into this when he is not involved in our conversation because unlike you, I buck the status quo and as such I will never say stupid things like 'love rules.'"
A.- So, it's just a thing of being contrary to what others think just because?
B.- I've never said anything like that (love rules); you must be confussing me with someone else. And if you read that, then your optometrist awaits an appointment.
"My way is much more militant and a such my heart is a drummer and I am much more revolutionary in my thinking and actions."
God, how 60's... We have people here like that; people that want to imposse their particualr view on everyone. We have death squads and all. I am even part of a list the regime has where I'm labelled as "traitor" because I don't just give up my country to them and I have been fighting them right from the start. Because of that, I have no access to anything related to the regime, be it the renewal of my documentation, attention at public hospitals, or anything like that. BTW, I study political science (politology, public administration, and international relations) and I can tell you something that's very basic; a revolution only happens when the productions factors change; the last revolution happened 200 years ago.
"Without people like me, there would be no such thing as 'civil rights,' 'gay liberation movements' and such."
I highly doubt it, and I'm thankful it isn't so.
"You need people like me to take the lead because people like you are afraid of his own shadow."
A.- Read of how life is here for people that hold their ground against the regime and then you can talk.
B.- Again, I'm thankful you're wrong. It is not because of people like you (extremists, talibans, bigots, etc.) that things change; they do so when the rest realize a change is needed. Radicalism only meets with radicalism.
In the words of a famous taliban of this board:
"Now, GET! OVER! IT!"
Michel.
To your first paragraph: If someone is afraid of even answering a question tthen that makes them a coward. When someone takes something he or she is mulcting! When there is an aray of ideas that are muddled they are said to be a muss! When the situation is dire and no progress is being made, what do you call that? Obscurantism! When a group of people pretends to be on your side and really aren't then he or she are called: ostentatious! Don't play this game of "ward of the the words" with me! You'll be up WAY past your bedtime! where is it written that if you call someone stupid that "they won" or that you are conceding? Where did you read that junk?
I was asking from a REFERENCE point of why the MAJORITY of latins see themselves as white. You missed the point completely! It went over you head. you are from Venezuela, right? Well the culture there is Euro-Latin being that the people were and are INFLUENCED by African structures BUT the Europeans are what they associate themselves with! THAT'S historical!
Your posts are starting to take that turn to become a punchline of some joke! Everything that you write is from an EMOTIONAL standpoint and not a logical one.
You are so wrong about my "experiences" being with a single member of the latin race and any other for that matter. Asians and latins are the ones that want to be white the most of ANY of the races! Nice try! THAT'S what I was getting at in the posts about Euro-latins. I thought that you would have caught onto that. I mad e it so obvious!
You "look" at the numbers BUT what is the demographic of the posters posting here? So no, I don't care what other people think. I don't live my life that way and as far as "attention" goes, BELIEVE me, I get MORE than my share so that's a lie! I DO think that I am the center of MY universe. If someone doesn't like it then that's on them! I could care less!
You aren't part of a so-called group that "doesn't give up your country to anyone" If you were then the fact that you are corresponding on a gay strip would be a no-no. If you were labeled a "traitor" then believe me, you would be under MUCH more persecution and you would not be in school! Stop playing with people! A revolutiona happened 200 years ago? Well, what do you call the Black Panther Party, Civil Rights? Women's Rights? etc...Were those not acts of revolution?
And yes people like me that will go out in front while people like you hide in your own shadows! With extremist people, there is no such thing as change!
I have read about how life is there and yes I can talk because you want us to believe that is extreme when it isn't. If it were that bad or whatever you would have left long ago so stop playing with us...
By the way, BACK to the subject: why do YOU think that Jeff and Brad are treated differently from Matt and Lance? Be specific!
GET OVER IT!
BM
Bottom line: If Brad had THOUGHT about Matt, he would not have lost him...If Matt had THOUGHT about Brad, he would have spoke up after the FIRST TIME!....If Jeff had the hots for Matt, and they hooked up, then what is the problem IF Matt and Brad had broken up which is what they did!...So everyone, OH WELL! The rule is: Don't mistreat your lover because he may dump you for someone else!
BM
"To your first paragraph: If someone is afraid of even answering a question tthen that makes them a coward."
Ok, so, it is completelly clear for everyone that if people don't answer the way you want, for you, they're either wrong or avoiding the issue, or whatever other excuse you would find to justify your tantrum of not winning the argument. But, I just won't go and say what you wanna hear because, simply, it doesn't make sense. I already asnwered that twice, so, go and do your tantrum, and then go and grab your puffy animal and suck on your thumb.
"When someone takes something he or she is mulcting!"
I think you ate a word or two; the phrase has no meaning.
When there is an aray of ideas that are muddled they are said to be a muss! When the situation is dire and no progress is being made, what do you call that? Obscurantism!"
A.- Nope. Just a stale situation.
B.- Obscurantism: opposition to the spread of knowledge; a policy of withholding knowledge from the general public; a style (as in literature or art) characterized by deliberate vagueness or abstruseness; an act or instance of obscurantism.
C.- RUN to a library or a bookstore and get a dictionary.
"When a group of people pretends to be on your side and really aren't then he or she are called: ostentatious!"
A.- Ostentattious: marked by or fond of conspicuous or vainglorious and sometimes pretentious display
B.- It doesn't apply to your example.
C.- Read C of the above reply.
"Don't play this game of "ward of the the words" with me! You'll be up WAY past your bedtime! "
Stop using words out of context.
"where is it written that if you call someone stupid that "they won" or that you are conceding? Where did you read that junk?"
It's popular knowledge, and pretty well known saying; if you don't even know that, then I guess you must not hav had too much contact with people... Or maybe your tantrums hadn't let you hear it.
"I was asking from a REFERENCE point of why the MAJORITY of latins see themselves as white."
A.- Provide it.
B.- The great majority of the people I know is latino, like the 95% or so; and they don't see themselves as "white" particularly.
C.- Being latino is not related to race, it's a cultural thing. I look like an indian, and I'm latino; my aunt is black, and she's latina, my sister is blonde, and she's latina.
D.- Let me quote this biggot for refference: "You missed the point completely! It went over you head."
"you are from Venezuela, right?"
FROM and IN Venezuela.
"Well the culture there is Euro-Latin being that the people were and are INFLUENCED by African structures BUT the Europeans are what they associate themselves with! THAT'S historical!"
Depends on the particualr background of the region, not all countries had the same influences; some parts, even on the same country, can have a bigger influence from Africa, in others, it's the europeans, and in others it's the indians; and even some other groups, as it happens in countries such as Guyana with a very heavy Hindu population. Just the fact that you ignore this, is proof that you have no clue on how latin american society is; be it per region, or as a whole.
"Your posts are starting to take that turn to become a punchline of some joke! Everything that you write is from an EMOTIONAL standpoint and not a logical one."
Count my exclamations points and all-caps, it doesn't seem I'm the "emotional" one; as for being "logical", proof you didn't read what it means.
"You are so wrong about my 'experiences' being with a single member of the latin race ..."
Not a race, it's a culture.
"... and any other for that matter."
You mentionned only 1 person. I don't have clarvoyance abilities to know the details of somebody else's life beyound what they say. Do you?
"Asians and latins are the ones that want to be white ..."
According to you.
"... the most of ANY of the races!"
"Nice try! THAT'S what I was getting at in the posts about Euro-latins."
Euro-latins? What's that? O.o
"I thought that you would have caught onto that. I mad e it so obvious!"
So obvious you now have to use words that doesn't even exist.
"You 'look' at the numbers BUT what is the demographic of the posters posting here?"
Answer your own question.
"So no, I don't care what other people think. I don't live my life that way and as far as 'attention' goes, BELIEVE me, I get MORE than my share so that's a lie!"
Yeah, you prove it every second... lol
"I DO think that I am the center of MY universe."
Obvious, and it's pretty clear that that of everyone else's too.
"If someone doesn't like it then that's on them! I could care less!"
How magnanimous of you.
"You aren't part of a so-called group that 'doesn't give up your country to anyone' If you were then the fact that you are corresponding on a gay strip would be a no-no."
What does one thing have to do with the other? Do you smoke something before you reply? O.o
"If you were labeled a 'traitor' then believe me, you would be under MUCH more persecution and you would not be in school!"
I do am labelled as traitor. What you think, I really don't care, since you have no clue as of how are things here.
"Stop playing with people!"
I'm not. I'm not the one talking about stuff I have no clue on.
"A revolutiona happened 200 years ago? Well, what do you call the Black Panther Party, Civil Rights? Women's Rights? etc...Were those not acts of revolution?"
Nope. Those were just changes. Good changes. Positive changes. But not revolutions. If all changes were called revolutions, then evolution and revolution would be the same. And Parmenides and Heraclitus would have been the same person, or would have thought the same way. They did not.
"And yes people like me that will go out in front while people like you hide in your own shadows! With extremist people, there is no such thing as change!"
I would just like to see you in the situation I am. You wouldn't last a second, believe me. As for extremists, you should know, being one.
"I have read about how life is there and yes I can talk because you want us to believe that is extreme when it isn't. If it were that bad or whatever you would have left long ago so stop playing with us..."
A.- A proven fact you have no idea how things really are, only what propaganda outlets show. Wow, you went from racist to bigot, and now puppet... LOL
B.- Hmmm.... Let's see... I live here, while you've read about it thousands of miles away... Who do you think knows better what's going on here?
"By the way, BACK to the subject: why do YOU think that Jeff and Brad are treated differently from Matt and Lance? Be specific!"
Character. Of course, you seem to think people react the exact same way towards, in example, Matt, as they do with Lance. You're wrong. You must be new to the strip. I was waaaaaaaaaay happy for Lance when he met the Irish guy. And I think he would be a way cool friend, since, so far, he's been a good friend to his friends. But, he uses sex as a career weapon, so, I wouldn't like to have him as my couple. To think people react to the characters based on their race is to say that people react the exact same way towards Kyle as they do towards Richard, in example. They don't. Do you think they do? "Be specific!"
"Bottom line: If Brad had THOUGHT about Matt, he would not have lost him...If Matt had THOUGHT about Brad, he would have spoke up after the FIRST TIME!...."
Which he didn't, hence, he wasn't thinking. So, if Brad did wrong doing it, Matt did wrong not saying anything.
"If Jeff had the hots for Matt, and they hooked up, then what is the problem IF Matt and Brad had broken up which is what they did!..."
A.- Jeff didn't know that until that same night.
B.- A friend would have tryed to get them together to talk and try to solve the issue and salvage the relationship.
C.- To be someone's couple, you have to be their friend first, so, Matt would know how much it would hurt Brad him sleeping with Jeff right after their unconclussive broke-up (unconclussive because they still had issues to talk about, which Matt avoided by just walking out).
"So everyone, OH WELL! The rule is: Don't mistreat your lover because he may dump you for someone else!"
Again, the problem is not that Matt had sex with someone, the problem is that he had sex with Jeff in particular, and that Jeff had sex with Matt in particlar. It's something very specific, not something broad and general.
In the words of a puppet:
"GET OVER IT!"
Michel.
Oh Lawdy, Lawdy, Lawdy....see what happens when I step away from the computer for a few days! I, respectfully bow, out this debate. I had posted something on Friday morning, but it seems it got deleted.
So until then, I anxiously await for next Tuesday's strip.
Michel,
Your theories are crap and you know it. You can do better than that! You have WWWaaayyy too much time on your hands. In one of your paragraphs, you mention the europeans! Indians as well. Do you know how many latins I see going at each other here because one or more are considered DARKER? PLEASE! You have to do MUCH better than that! FOR the record, I will copy and paste something for you later but right now, I have a date with a you guessed it, blond haired green eyed man. Are you sure that you are a student and the one who is considered a "traitor?" My words had meaning because of the point of reference to you. As a result, you can't teach an old dog new tricks so...I am moving on to the rest of this post!
YOu are repeating what I just said in that first sentence of Brad and Matt...How about a friend who was attracted to someone and didn't make a move UNTIL the two broke up? Brad and Matt stopped seeing each other and so Matt was single again! Matt and Brad were a couple and not married and as such when the two broke up, it was fair game...
THIS is what happens when you treat you lover like crap, there is no garuntee that he or she will just stand there and take it. I think that Jeff/Matt have a natural amount of affection for one another. Brad is clueless. It's not Matt's job to babysit a GROWN man!
Get over it!
Bm
Hello,
"Your theories are crap and you know it."
If you think that what people think or say is crap just because you don't agree, well... Let me remind you; You are not the center of the universe. You are not the holder of the absolut truth.
"You can do better than that!"
Likewise. Read above.
"You have WWWaaayyy too much time on your hands."
I'm not the one picking up fights that I can't win; or messing up people's comments.
"In one of your paragraphs, you mention the europeans! Indians as well."
Let's do a re-cap to see the mentions of europeans and indians:
Me:
"Things in Spain, Mexico, Venezuela, and Argentina are done sometimes close to each other, but usually quite differently. It would be as if I was to say that things in Australia are done exactly as in the US, just because of their linked past with England..."
"I have ancestors of many parts. Some came from Castilla, and I do speak castillian (which is the propper name of the 'spanish' language); some came from the Basque Country (Euskadi), others from Galicia, others were native americans, particularly (and quite recent) from the Warao tribe, and others came as slaves from Africa, I guess from Nigeria since most came from there; however, I don't speak Euskera, Galician, Warao, or any of the languages used in Nigeria, because they were 'lost' generation after generation."
You:
"So what you are stating is that because Mexican people have ties to England that they feel a more natural kinship with them."
(Notice how you twisted/mixed my comments.)
Me:
"Mexicans having ties with England? Not only it is historically wrong, but I didn't say so. You mixed two completelly different parragraph, go to your optometrist."
"You would be expected to learn the language because it is mandatory here to do so; all documentation is in spanish, and all public offices attend people in spanish (except for the offices that have things to do with the different indian tribes in their respective zones), so, yeah, you would have to earn the language. This doesn't apply to the US, you don't have an official language and official documentation is issued in 5 different languages (at least it was so last time I checked)."
You:
"you are from Venezuela, right? Well the culture there is Euro-Latin being that the people were and are INFLUENCED by African structures BUT the Europeans are what they associate themselves with! THAT'S historical!"
"You are so wrong about my "experiences" being with a single member of the latin race and any other for that matter. Asians and latins are the ones that want to be white the most of ANY of the races! Nice try! THAT'S what I was getting at in the posts about Euro-latins. I thought that you would have caught onto that. I mad e it so obvious!"
Me:
"Being latino is not related to race, it's a cultural thing. I look like an indian, and I'm latino; my aunt is black, and she's latina, my sister is blonde, and she's latina."
"Depends on the particualr background of the region, not all countries had the same influences; some parts, even on the same country, can have a bigger influence from Africa, in others, it's the europeans, and in others it's the indians; and even some other groups, as it happens in countries such as Guyana with a very heavy Hindu population. Just the fact that you ignore this, is proof that you have no clue on how latin american society is; be it per region, or as a whole."
"Euro-latins? What's that? O.o"
"So obvious you now have to use words that doesn't even exist."
So, as you see, you're mixing stuff... The term "euro-latin" could be used to reffer to those people, in europe, whose main language derives from latin, in a broad way. Now, when you reffer to latinos, as in latin america, it just doesn't apply.
A wild guess is that you were trying to construct something like that politically-correct but highly insulting composition (in my opinion) such as "african-american"; however, it wouldn't be appropiate for your example. Since being latino is cultural and not racial, someone of european ancestry, such as the son of a portuguese that was born and raised in Venezuela (quite common), could be reffered to as "euro-latin" since he's racially european (caucasian) but culturally latino; however, he would not have any problems or questions towards his race, as he knows he's, kind of specifically, portuguese.
"Do you know how many latins I see going at each other here because one or more are considered DARKER? PLEASE! You have to do MUCH better than that!"
I do am aware there is racism among all kinds of people; I never said there wasn't. I did a paper recently where I found out about the quasi-official racism in Cuba, where only 1% percernt of all regime officials are black. However, that's not the case here in my country. With 85% of the population being mixed, the number of black people in government positions is low, same as the number of whites, and of course indians, as well as all other groups.
"FOR the record, I will copy and paste something for you later but right now, ..."
I'm waiting...
"... I have a date with a you guessed it, blond haired green eyed man."
Odd how you mention his physical/racial attributes and not anything related to his personality...
"Are you sure that you are a student and the one who is considered a 'traitor?' My words had meaning because of the point of reference to you. As a result, you can't teach an old dog new tricks so...I am moving on to the rest of this post!"
Good, because none of those phrases can be understood by anyone... So, not only a dictionary, but maybe an english teacher too...
"YOu are repeating what I just said in that first sentence of Brad and Matt...How about a friend who was attracted to someone and didn't make a move UNTIL the two broke up?"
A true friend would have first have tryed to get them back together and, if that wasn't possible, he would have first waited for a while, and then tell the friend before making his move. None of this happened.
"Brad and Matt stopped seeing each other and so Matt was single again!"
For how long? 3 days...
"Matt and Brad were a couple and not married and as such when the two broke up, it was fair game..."
A.- When you start a relationship, the idea is for ir to last, otherwise, you only have one-nigh-stands. B.- With that mentality, my bet is that you have not had too many long lasting relationships. Except that weak-minded, mentally unstable guy that was with you for a while, according to you...
"THIS is what happens when you treat you lover like crap, there is no garuntee that he or she will just stand there and take it."
But he did, because he wanted so, otherwise, he would have said something earlier when things could have been fixed.
"I think that Jeff/Matt have a natural amount of affection for one another."
It's just lust... You'll see...
"Brad is clueless."
I agree; they've been doing it behind his back... Great friends indeed...
"It's not Matt's job to babysit a GROWN man!"
You insist on this... Did I ever say the opposite? Of course, I really don't consider that speaking out your thoughts to the person you are with is considered baby-sitting...
To conclude, let me ask again those question you tryed to avoid so desperatelly:
(Since it seems you are read-challenged, the questions are in italics so you can point them out easily)
You: "You want to believe that this gay society is something of a mecca for you"
Me: Please, point out where did I say so.
You: "You see, I was engaged to a latino for over 4 years so..."
Me: And then so you think everyone in latin america is the exact same "copy and paste" of this guy?
Who was the one that said in his previous post "When did you EVER see a hispanic person that wasn't stereotypical of a white person's account on a TV show?"
Doesn't this mean that you're judging millions of peple by a steoreotype you have of what latino people are or might be because of only ONE person?
You: "Preference is alot different than bigotry! Don't get it twisted."
Me: Where did I say so?
You: "You call immigrants oppurtunists? But are we not all from those "oppurtunists?" don't be daft!"
Me: I didn't call immigrants opportunists, read what you wrote, don't twist my words. You wrote "What do you call these so call immigrants that want EVERYONE else to pay his or her way?" Isn't that what an opportunist is? Regadless of whether they're immigrants or not? Again, don't twist my words.
You: "I am glad that you looked up hyperbole because that is the way that latins are treated in this country."
Me: A.- How can people be trated as an "extravagant exaggeration"? That applies to things, words, clichés; not to people.
B.- You said "Your gay experience has been reduced to a hyperbole!" So, it was you who compared me and my experience with a hyperbole... What makes you different from others, then, according to your own perspective?
You: "'That's life?' You ought to be ashamed of that statement. While the latinos are struggling to find his or her own niche within this gay community, you state that it's 'life.' Remember: It's nice to laugh but don't be the joke!"
Me: So, according to you, people must be flamboyant in their cultural behaviour, segregationist, purist-talibanic, and such, or they're rejecting their culture? You say you read spanish; how many black people can read spanish? Oh! You're different... O.O Does that make you any less black?
You: "You think for one second that Brad didn't know what he was doing? How do you know?"
Me: How do you?
You: "I was asking from a REFERENCE point of why the MAJORITY of latins see themselves as white."
Me: A.- Provide it.
You: "You 'look' at the numbers BUT what is the demographic of the posters posting here?"
Me: Answer your own question.
You: "By the way, BACK to the subject: why do YOU think that Jeff and Brad are treated differently from Matt and Lance? Be specific!"
Me: Character. Of course, you seem to think people react the exact same way towards, in example, Matt, as they do with Lance. You're wrong. You must be new to the strip. I was waaaaaaaaaay happy for Lance when he met the Irish guy. And I think he would be a way cool friend, since, so far, he's been a good friend to his friends. But, he uses sex as a career weapon, so, I wouldn't like to have him as my couple. To think people react to the characters based on their race is to say that people react the exact same way towards Kyle as they do towards Richard, in example. They don't. Do you think they do? "Be specific!"
And an added bonus:
If what they (Matt and Jeff) are doing is OK and acceptable... Why are they hidding?
And so the puppet said:
"Get over it!"
Michel.
Michel, Yourr posts are BBBBBBoooooorrrriiiiinnnnnnggg and long winded! Let me start with the personality of this "blond, green eyed guy" after the date: He (1) LIVES with and depends on his ex(?) for EVERYTHING! (2) Is $30,000 in debt! (3) Has had and will continue to get plastic surgery! (4) Is a freelance hairstylist and is on Adderall and xanax..All of this at 28! Good enough to get dumped? ABSOLUTELY!!!! Although he is handsome, I dumped him! His life is WAY too crazy! How's that?
I know that Brad was aware because at that point in time, he had people pursuing him( the fling with Eduardo, Jeff trying to get him to come out so that they could be a couple, Kyle admitting that if Brad was out and a little older he would be with him)
I am not providing you with anything about Latins seeing themselves as white, the proof is in when you see them acting like Justin Timberlake!
Did you consider Jeff to be a dog? Yes. Is Lance a dog? Yes. What's the difference?
They are hiding for the same reason that Brad SLOBBERED all over Jeff! Maybe they want to wait until the RIGHT time. Brad can wait, he'll get over it. Oh Well!
BM
Michel,
Did I not tell you that I would post you someting? Well, here it is....There are two classes in Venezuela as it pertains to race and cultural identity. First the term mestizaje addresses part of the nation-building ideology, present in the collective imagination of the cultural and racial panorama. Mestizaje is defined as the notion of racial and cultural mixing, which consists of the complex ideas surrounding race, nation and multiculturalism. Three key areas and concepts relating to the mestizaje are: popular music, religious practice and familial relationships. These key areas serve to further explore and discuss how people experience the process of racial-cultural mixing.
Second being the Euro-Latin ancestry which accounts for 41% percent of Venezuela's lineage. The European groups that are the primary influence of this ancestry are Spanish and Italian. These influences can be seen in language and cuisine, among other things, through out the country. Other European groups that account for Venezuela's multi-ethnic society is Portuguese, German, French and Eastern European groups.
Venezuelans consider themselves to be emblematic of the Venezuelan identity as defined by their lineage part of Venezuelans being "Mestizos" the other majority, white of European descent. The merging of different racial and ethnic identities is not considered to be a real Venezuelan identity. This poses an interesting representation of national identity among Venezuelans, as the mestizaje in Venezuela represent about 49% of the total population.
Through academic analysis, the ideology reserved for racial-cultural difference emerges alongside the "spaces of sameness and homogeneity". The symbolics of origin, found in those indigenous to the land, exists alongside the symbolics of mixture. A valid point of tension is revealed to exist between the idea of sameness and difference in two ways. First, nationalistic ideologies of the mestizaje are assumed to be essentially about the creation of a homogeneous meztizo future, which also opposes the constructionist view of nation-building through racial-cultural diversity. Secondly, the mestizaje ideology is masked as an inclusive process, as some are eligible to become a mestizo, but, it is argued that in reality it is really an exclusive process as it marginalises blackness and indigenous alongside whiteness.
Understanding the key concept being a Euro-Latin nation also identifies the way in which Venezuelans view themselves within the context of Latin America.
BM
Michel, Here is something more...According to a survey conducted of LGBT African-Americans in nine U.S. cities in 2000, a third of respondents reported negative experiences in predominantly white LGBT organizations and with white LGBT persons in bars and clubs.[1]
In 2005, Les Natali, the owner of a gay bar named Badlands located in San Francisco, was criticized by the city's Human Rights Commission who determine that 13 instances of racial discrimination by the staff occurred. Examples include refusal for entry by African-Americans, white patrons being served first even though African-Americans were first in line among others.[2]
In 2006, there were reports of some verbal attacks on gay Latinos by gay whites in The Castro district of San Francisco. John Mendoza, a protest organizer against racism in the Castro, said he was told by a gay white male to "go back to Mexico, you fucking wetback, where you belong".[3]
[edit] In the media
Examples:
Gay drag queen Chuck Knipp has been criticized by anti-racism advocated (both gay and straight) for his character, Shirley Q. Liquor. Knipp performs his act in blackface, and makes comments about blacks and black culture which some people consider offensive. Several protests have been made, in which Knipp had to cancel several of his shows.[4]
Some LGBT media outlets have been criticized for not putting a racially diverse representation of gays and lesbians in their works, like magazines such as The Advocate and gay-themed television shows such as Queer as Folk.[5][6] However, recent shows such as LOGO's Noah's Arc are working to put more gay people of color in their media...
BM
Hello,
"Michel, Yourr posts are BBBBBBoooooorrrriiiiinnnnnnggg and long winded!"
Are they done for your enjoyment and entertaining? Nope. So, I wouldn't care less...
"Let me start with the personality of this "blond, green eyed guy" after the date: He (1) LIVES with and depends on his ex(?) for EVERYTHING! (2) Is $30,000 in debt! (3) Has had and will continue to get plastic surgery! (4) Is a freelance hairstylist and is on Adderall and xanax..All of this at 28! Good enough to get dumped? ABSOLUTELY!!!! Although he is handsome, I dumped him! His life is WAY too crazy! How's that?"
Only the first might be considered part of his personality, but not the rest. Personality traits are things such as if he's funny or boring, serious or witty, and the like. And, yeah... He's completelly "dump-able"; once he gets his act together, he can go on the market again...
"I know that Brad was aware because at that point in time, he had people pursuing him( the fling with Eduardo, Jeff trying to get him to come out so that they could be a couple, Kyle admitting that if Brad was out and a little older he would be with him)"
Aware of? Remember we're here talking if he was aware or not of him talking about Jeff to Matt. Him being in the closet, he's aware of that, and so was Matt. But, again, that's not the subject being discussed.
"I am not providing you with anything about Latins seeing themselves as white, the proof is in when you see them acting like Justin Timberlake!"
And Timberlake, in turn, behaves and wears clothes that were first seen among black rappers... So... Does that mean they all want to be black?
"Did you consider Jeff to be a dog? Yes."
No. Never said so. He's kinda hot, physically speaking, not completelly my thing, though, but there are a lot of traits of his personality I didn't like. And now, of course, I like him way less than before.
"Is Lance a dog? Yes."
No. I don't consider him a "dog" either...
"What's the difference?"
Hmmmm..... Didn't I already explain this? Jeff is, in my opinion, too carelss of everything. Maybe this very carelessness is the reason why he's HIV+, and, I think, because of his different personality traits, that the guys he's been having sex with ignore this fact... Something that, as you know, not only endangers hin, but also the other guys. On Lance, in the micro-universe of the B&B, I see him kind of like that father that is a bit absent but that when necessary shows up and puts everyone in place, Kyle is more... Motherly... I do like Lance, but, as I said, since he uses sex as a career tool, I wouldn't have him for my couple, but I would like him as a friend.
"They are hiding for the same reason that Brad SLOBBERED all over Jeff! Maybe they want to wait until the RIGHT time."
Sure... Keep saying it, who knows, you might eventually believe it. And...
"Brad can wait, he'll get over it. Oh Well!"
You can't know this. Only Greg does.
On your second and third posts:
Generally, when you quote something or someone, you have to say it, otherwise, that would be considered as if you stole their work. Also, to quote Wikipedia, which, as everyone that uses it knows, is not the most reliable source, well... Let's just say I expected more from you.
Individually:
On the first post:
"Mestizaje" is what happens when people of different races have children together. As simple as that. It's nothing cultural. That aside, as I've said before (over and over again), since I live in Venezuela I can only talk about how things are here with absolut certainty. A bit of history. Venezuela was an unimportant colony for Spain, it was only important for strategic reasons, being it the "door" to South America. What this means is that most rules that were applied to other more important colonies were either not applied here at all, of were applied but to a lesser extent. On the racial ground, the most important colonies had very marked divissions; and there were "steps", and the spaniards impossed a way to classify people by their purity of blood. In countries such as Mexico and Peru, the number of these classifications were as big as 40-50; in Venezuela, however, there were as much as 10-12, and only the "main ones" were actually enforced.
On top, you had the Peninsular Whites, the spaniads born on Spain, on the peninsula, then you had the "Shore Whites" (Blancos de orilla) which were the whites born on the colonies (including the Canary Islands); then you had the "Creole Whites", the children of the "Shore Whites" born in the Venezuela. The "Pardos" (mix of indinas and europeans) and later on the "Mestizos" (people mixed in varying degrees of all races) were the biggest part of society; so much so, that they were a bit over 60% of the population by the time of the independence. Then you had the indians and black slaves, about 10 and 20 percent, respectivelly.
Generation after generation, people mixed more and more, to the extent that in a single family you can find people from many colors. What ou're getting, I guess, is the propagande broadcasted by the regime who insists there's racism in Venezuela, looking for the support of people abroad that have no clue on how things are really in the country.
Unfortunatelly, the most accurate information can be found in spanish and, even though you said you can read it, my guess is that you don't read spanish fluently enough to get the different meanings... As you know, spanish is one of the most complexes languages in the world.
As for the second (also from Wikipedia):
First, remember that I speak from the perspective of my country, I can't say (and have never done so) say how things are in the US since I don't live there, even if I have a LOT of friends that have gone there, lived there, and currently do; all from different races and social extraction.
A study conducted in only 9 cities in the US is certainly not conclussive...
Also, you're mixing topics... You're talking about latinos wanting to be white, and they discriminating each other because of their color; and then you go show information on discrimination done by white people towards blacks and latinos... Doesn't make sense.
I don't know who Chuck Knipp is, so, I can't comment. I do know who Carlos Mencia is, and I find him just hilarious.
Michel.
BTW, you didn't answer any of my questions...
Michel.
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