Tuesday, January 20, 2015

Episode # 403 - January 20th, 2015

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29 comments:

Ardenwolfe said...

Oh man. I cannot wait to see who this is. It'll be too funny if it's Price.

ShaunNJ said...

Richard seems to be pointing to "masculine" men as macho and oppressor types. Would that apply to Breyer who had harassing comments from his boss, or Brad who remains closeted in a homophobic sports league? Or Kristian - who despite his demeanor would be bashed or killed in his homeland? Jake expressed his preferences in a less than polite way, but people have personality attractions. I think Richard is a cool crusader as much as Eduardo - both have issues. And each would have their suitors.

Samtrak said...

Great commentary on why we glorify macho man.

mwk said...

Nobody is "glorifying" macho men, as much as they are berating them as being self-loathing queers, as in this episode. It's gotten to the point where admitting you hate musicals is enough to label you with a case of internalized homophobia. If you are the type of gay man with a more traditional masculine demeanor and interests, what are you going to have in common with the sweet, Opera-Loving "auntie" ? Since when are people forced to like everyone they meet, regardless?

Anonymous said...

It's not about liking everyone they meet, it's Jake's obvious and overt disdain and insulting, stereotypic language ABOUT those who are more fem -- that's more than simply expressing a preference of what he's attracted to, that's a glimpse into the psyche that still believes straight is right and gay is wrong.

If you are attracted to guys with beards and someone sets you up with a smooth-faced guy, you simply state you aren't interested because he's not your type -- you don't launch into a tirade belittling smooth-faced guys as lesser, wimpier, girlier, etc.

THAT is why Richard IS right, there's more to Jake's attitude than simply having a preference for more masculine guys -- there's a judgement BEHIND that like that wouldn't be there if it was nothing more than a simple preference for what he's attracted to.

Dawson McDawsington said...

I agree with mwk. Jake's comments could be seen as rude, maybe even homophobic. That's his problem to work out (if it even is one). As much as I love Richard (and I do!) I think he might be overreacting a bit, perhaps because of his own history on this subject. His armchair analysis this episode is a little too pat, and pretty patronizing to boot. Still, I'm thrilled to see where this all ends up.
Great job as always, Greg!

salinasdew said...

OR ... Jake could've merely responded, "Gosh, Rich, I get your point. Wanna go out?"

Anonymous said...

I think someone is about to be out-butched

F.Z. said...

Roll back to the November 25th episode. Jake hooked up with a 22 year old who has a "daddy fetish". Maybe this "22 year old" was a guy like Eduardo when he was hot for Nick, remember that "daddy fetish" story. Before that he went on a date with a "water sports" enthusiast. He is attracted to "manly" "real guys". So he doesn't believe he has a "fetish" it's just other people that do. He does though if he claims to prefer "manly, real guys". I think there's a difference between fetishizing symbols of masculinity and being internally homophobic and sexist. Jake like many gay men who prefer "manly, straight acting guys" have not put their attractions under much if any critical examination. They can't articulate those distinctioons without sounding sexist. Richard has uncovered this and is offended. There are macho bears who are only interested in other macho bears for sure. I thought one of the qualities of the bear movement was that it embraced a certain acceptance of "softened masculinities" in body and behavior. Bear events were places where some gay men who were alienated by the exclusionary practices of mainstream gay culture went to feel more comfortable. Jake is more of a gay outsider like Nick, Dave or Rudy so a plot about him being exclusionary doesn't quite jive in my view.

Anonymous said...

MWK: If that's the case then gay people shouldn't get upset when straight people exclude them based on a generalization. In this episode, he still claims that he wants a "masculine." I find this disturbing because it seems as if gay people perpetrate this behavior over and over again and then cry wolf when it's done to them. Most guys who claim that, especially bears, are really fem deep down inside and Richard made an excellent point...

Anonymous said...

Dawson: I'll remember that when the next person makes a homophobic remark about sissies...

Anonymous said...

Why didn't Jake just state from the get go that he didn't want to go through with the date if he didn't think that the guy was "masculine?" I don't get it....He didn't have to put his date down. He comes across as a gay homophobe and I think that the reason why people are so upset is his attitude moreso than his actual type! He should have made his point known to Richard BEFORE Richard set him up....That's what wrong with the gay community now: too many labels and absolutely ZERO identity! Really....FYI, it was a FEM that helped gay people get rights much moreso than a MASC. Masc are too busy hiding in the closet and they get made at fem for being out. This is what Jake is and Richard pointed this out greatly

mwk said...

Richard fixed up Jake with a "mini me" version of himself, ignoring anything about what he knows about Jake. It was either because Richard is so self centered that he can't understand why other people might not want what he wants in a man, or because he was "testing" Jake. Regardless, he's a lousy matchmaker. Now, he's going to fix Jake up with someone who makes Rambo look like a pussy, even though Jake said "I don't need Clint Eastwood". So he's out to prove his point and not help Jake. Richard needs to retire from matchmaking.

Anonymous said...

I'm going to nail Richard to the wall.
He's an imaginary character but the writer is not. For one thing , I'm sick of finger snapping Queens thinking they know it all when in reality all they do is gossip and judge. Richard is written no different - he is an annoying self centered thinks he;s all that type.

Sure Richard, you think all butch guys are secretly fem deep down and are ashamed or some other bs analysis of gay people. Not all gay guys are in your face Hollywood type Queens who have to own a cat or listen to Bette Midler or wear earrings and speak in quips. Whereas Jake was critical in judging his date too much instead of saying he wasn't my type or I felt no connection. Richard is dead wrong and hey didnt Richard go to some guy to learn how to be butch when he got dumped by a guy who found him not masculine enough . Hypocrite.

I myself prefer a man to look and act like one. Why do people like Richard act out every stereotype of gay people? Like using female pronouns to refer to men , like you need to be this gay bitch all the time. Not everyone is Leslie Jordan sheesh. That's why I cant stand guys like Richard. Matchmaker ? No fucking way. He's a jerk

Anonymous said...

One thing I love about being gay is that we don't have to buy into any masculine/feminine roles. We can go to a hockey game one night and a figure skating event the next (to be stereotypical) Richard understands and embraces this. Jake, however, has completely closed the door on anyone/anything that appears too feminine.

Why limit yourself and others on something so arbitrary?

Anonymous said...

MWK: Wow! After reading your statements, I'd swear that you had some issues about what's considered fem and masculine. It doesn't sound like Jake gave him any specific instructions on what he's looking for and to be honest with you, it came out as ignorant.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous:

Why would you "nail" Richard to the wall? You say that your sick of "finger snapping queens" but aren't you just as tired of "butch/masculine" men who PRETEND to be dominant? I mean really?


Richard has a point in terms of a lot of masculine men are fem deep down, I know this for a fact because most guys think that "butch" translates into guys being a "top" and that's not true. Not all guys listen to Bette Midler but not all guys listen to Justin Timberlake either so what's your point? Too often fems are deemed the pariahs of the gay people when in fact they were the ones who actually were bold enough to really effect change! Richard probably grew up being judged by gay people because he's "fem" but at least he didn't change himself for anyone, Jake on the other hand hides behind the façade of "real men" when he isn't one himself. It's no different than straight men who profess that indulging in gay activities such as sex doesn't really mean that they are gay. At least Richard doesn't hide.....


I'd ask you the same question: why do men PRETEND to be masculine when they aren't? Why can't they just be themselves? Those are things that they have to ask themselves! This is not a good thing at all. Your preferences are just that: preferences but you don't have to put down people who aren't YOUR preference. That's self serving and yes, it's what little straight high school GIRLS do!

James Selkirk said...

to the previous anonymous poster.
Done being on your soapbox? .
I'm a blue collar guy who loves men who are men . I do like masculine men but i also love a man who is sensitive and kind and there are many out there. To each his own. I describe myself as masculine but thats not all I am, i have a tender inside too. I would not be attracted to a man who acts like a Queen and refers to men as she and her nor would I need someone who is in your face gay 24hrs a day. it is possible to be gay without acting like a stereotype.

Jake is indeed wrong in being judgmental but Richard is worse. You say he didn't change himself for anyone ? i remember that storyline where Richard got dumped by a guy who thought he wasnt butch enough so he went to a guy to take butch lessons.
of course it was conveniently wrapped up by having the butch instructor end up having a gay record collection or something like that sheesh.

Richard doesn't hide, he is annoyingly a gossipy pain in the ass.
This guy gets away with a lot , never shuts up and never minds his own business. He even hit on Breyer too.
I think Richard should leave Jake alone. I for one would tell Richard off - not everyone likes the damn annoying Queen 24 hrs a day - to him everything is delicious and dish dish dish. Be gay by all means Richard just realize there are men who dont care for your bullshit in your face attitude

Anonymous said...

James:

So your a "blue collar man" who loves men who are men. Is that right? Wow. So your equating fem men to women? Last I checked, fem men do not have female anatomy. You say that your would not be attracted to a guy who is gay 24 hrs a day. Well, when you're gay, it doesn't come off in a shower your know! A"man's man?" Remember, it was a flamboyant "queen" who initiated gay rights when your so called "men" were married and then secretly getting banged by men so your point is moot...


I didn't follow the storyline in terms of Richard but I do know this: he doesn't change for anyone and he couldn't even if he tried. Jake on the other hand else. He hides behind is rotund exterior.

You have some very homophobic thoughts and you should get help.

Ashley Connor-guscott said...

Sure jake may not have been a cavalier in his response but the point still stands!

People are attracted to who their attracted to. Some guys like masculine guys, some like feminine. Stop trying to force everyone to force to like everyone!

Richard is being just a homobophic as jake by trying to make him something he's not. Why can't he just accept jake as he is? Why is he trying to make the ridiculous point about "masc is really super fem"? Its not homophobic for someone to have a preference for masculine men. And beside I've never anyone cry homophobia when a gem guy rejects a masc, so why is it wrong the other way round?!

Anonymous said...

Ashley: What point is that? I seem to recall that straight people stated the same thing about gay people and it outraged gay people. Isn't that right?

It's not about Jake not being attracted to fem, it's about the fact that he made fun of the guy because the guy had a doll collection. This is AFTER the guy made him dinner and treated him well!

Richard isn't being homophobic because he didn't make statements about Jake's "masculinity" Why can't Jake be more in tune to guys that don't look like him? Look, majority of the guys that profess their masculinity really are fem. Your whole thought patterns appear to be warped.

It's like I said before, Fem men were fighting for gay people while masc men were secretly pillow biters.

So....THIS is what the gay community is about? This is almost as weird as gay men dressing up as animals and calling themselves "furries" in order to have sex with men while dressed as an animal! Geez!

Ashley Connor-guscott said...

That my point entirely. Striaght guys use to tell gays who to be attracted to and it was wrong. Now gays are doing the same with other gays! Trying to force a masc-liking guy to like fems is like trying to force a gay to be straight. Just let each person like what they like with out sticking your nose where it doesn't belong!

They rest of your comment just seem to be rambling nonsense.

Also you say you don't follow Richards story line so you haven't seen how he fawns over each and ever manly man that walks in. He moaningat jake for something he does himself. He's being completely hypocritical.

As I said jake may not have handled it in the best way but Richard is in the wrong here! He shouldn't be forcing jake to be something he's not!

Anonymous said...

Nope, disagree -- look at the original comic that started the conversation, and you'll see that it's Jake who used the homophobic, insulting language first -- and worse -- than anything Richard has said in their conversations.

If it's ONLY a matter of preference, then the insults Jake used to describe the blind date were *completely unnecessary*. The fact that Jake said them, thought that they were a perfectly acceptable way to describe non-masculine guys, screams VOLUMES about what is going on with Jake -- and it is more than just having a preference, Richard is absolutely 100% right about that.

Ashley Connor-guscott said...

I can respect that

Anonymous said...

Ashley: You make my point FOR me. If straight people are a part of this cliquish crowd and they have excluded gay people for decades, then why would gay people perpetrate that into their reality? It's not about FORCING anyone to like people. It's about respect. It's one thing to not be attracted to someone but it's quite another when you put that person down. It's one of the many reasons to which gay youth are committing suicide and why so many gay men engage in risky behavior.

Again, you have some serious issues about being gay or rather being tagged a "fem" you should really seek counseling. You should be more WELCOMING to others not like yourself and from what I've read, you aren't and you have zero empathy for "fem" Get help

Ashley Connor-guscott said...

Where have I said hate fems?! I have no problem with fems I'm just not attracted to them.

And I've already said many times I disaprove of the language jake used!

My problem is people like you who demand that I can't be masculine, and that I must be "a supper gem bottom with internalised homophobia". NO. I am who I am and if you don't like it then you can fuck right off, who and whatever you are!

Simplely put STOP FORCING PEOPLE TO BE WHO THERE NOT, AND ACCEPT THEM AS THEY ARE

end of discussion!

Anonymous said...

Ashley:
Your ACTIONS state that you hate fems! You hate people or individuals that you deem WEAKER or more QUEENY than yourself! This is despite the fact that gay rights would still be in the dark ages if it weren't for the "fems." Matt SHephard was fem but his death spoke volumes more than the so called masculine punks that are out there.

My problem is people like you in general who want to assimilate into straight society because you have zero sense of self. Obviously you can't comprehend at all. For the record, you come across as an entitled bitter queen who has no sense of his own history or tolerance of others not like yourself. So with that in mind, you can fuck right off yourself. Save that conversations for your "masculine" men.

Your last sentence was as inane as your reply. You have a problem with fem because you don't want to be labeled as one. Now......

End of discussion......!

Anonymous said...

I came out as gay four years ago. the year before i came out was a long process of what i found atractive what my turn ons are and not. im a leather cub, and i like bears. flamboyant/queens are a major turn off. why you might ask. its my tastes. i cant help it as much as i can help that im gay.
to finish off my bear and i are both out to everyone we enjoy hunting fishing and bbq and leather nights at the club. our straingt and gay freinds are ok with it.

barak torvan said...

I have friends like Richard, who are wonderful people but not the kind of man I am attracted to. I am married to the kind of man I am attracted to-the every day next door neighbor type. Masculine and feminine mixed together.

I view BOTH of these characters as being a bit homophobic to tell the truth. One taking on the anti-feminine perspective and the other taking on the anti-masculine perspective.

Richard is more eloquent with his words than Jake is, which Jake should work on for the future. But I do not fault either character for their perspective or their attraction.